For Jamie Geller, Food Is Just an Entree
The kosher cooking star talks about her career, resilience, and why food isn't everything.
“I’m very much eat-to-live, but let’s make it fun.”
Jamie Geller has been called the “kosher Rachael Ray.” She’s the author of six cookbooks and a line of spices, and she’s behind the food magazine Joy of Kosher. Everyone who cooks kosher has heard of Jamie and followed some of her recipes and holiday menus. (My favorite is her butternut squash souffle, which I make every Rosh Hashanah.) Jamie is the keynote speaker at the Federation’s virtual Connections on February 6 at 11 am. I will have the honor of interviewing Jamie at the VIP reception. Get your tickets here.
You went from a city girl who used her oven for storage to a celebrity chef. Lots of women cook and blog and do social media and take beautiful pictures. What do you think it was that pushed you over the edge to global success?
Great question. Lots of answers. I think it was the story that I really came from nothing, nothing, nothing. I never turned the oven on. Not only did I come from nothing, I was honest about that. I shared in a weekly column in the local newspaper and then in the pages of my first book all of my funny, honest, and embarrassing missteps, you know, learning along the way. And I think that that was what was so relatable. I had a local column and a national column. I think it was a time where kosher food and food in general was like these beautiful, unattainable, perfect masterpiece works of art. And you looked at the cookbook like, I'll never make that. But I loved looking at it. I think when I sort of dumbed it down, if you will, they’re quick, fast recipes with few ingredients that every knows, no need to pull out the equipment. And I coupled that with a really personal autobiographical stories — I always say I wrote an autobiography. And then I included the recipes. And I think that was the initial connection that sort of sparked the birth of a brand.
You put yourself out there and made yourself vulnerable. That’s a scary thing to do, but it's also the key to success in a lot of ways. How did that feel?
It came so natural to me. My husband always says everything is just right on my face. I couldn’t hide it if I wanted to. It’s my style to be very honest and forthcoming, and I never used the word vulnerable. I guess I do agree that that’s the proper terminology for what I was doing and how I was sharing. Authenticity is a buzzword now. No one wants to hear “authenticity” anymore. But then it was fresh, and that’s what was fresh at the time. I did it without knowing it was a trend or starting a trend or part of a trend.
Let’s talk about your recipes and your process for a minute. I know your husband was very instrumental in encouraging you to cook and publish, but how did this go — you just threw some things together and were like, oh I’m a chef?!
First of all, I never say I’m a chef. In fact, I always just say, I’m not a chef, I just play one on TV. I don’t even think it’s the right terminology. People really actually go to school for this type of thing. I just fell into creating recipes initially. They were all my recipes. It’s everything that I learned. My husband taught me how to cook and all of his bachelor recipes and all of his family’s recipes. And my-cousin’s-neighbor’s-friend’s-next-door-neighbor’s-first-cousin’s recipe. And that was the first cookbook. That’s how I accumulated everything, all of my fast, simple, and quick recipes. Then I did spend years working and developing recipes in the kitchen. Always the criteria was, how do I make this simpler? Do I need all these ingredients? Do I need this piece of equipment? Do I need this extra step? A broccoli kugel recipe I got from my stepmother-in-law that said to separate the eggs. So first of all, I was like, what does she even mean? Like, is that two eggs to the right two eggs to the left? Then she was like, beat the whites until they’re fluffy. I was like, why would I do that? Is she serious? I just kind of put it all in the bowl and I mixed it, and I put it in the oven. Every time she comes over, she’s like, “that’s my recipe. You make it even better than me.” Well, guess what? You didn’t have to separate the eggs and beat the whites till they’re fluffy. So if it could be simplified and dumbed down, and if it could be done in one bowl or a bowl and a spoon or a different method or technique or something to just make life easier and quicker — that was the criteria for development.
I have a recipe from my great-aunt, it’s dated from 1974 and it’s her honey cake. It’s really the best honey cake. No one likes honey cake, but it’s very good. What’s really great is that it’s a one-bowl recipe, like, throw it all in and then bake it. I love New York Times recipes, and I find that they’re almost flawless, but I’m like why does this take two hours? Why do I have to stir the mushrooms forever?
You know, they are flawless. I remember the editor, Sam Sifton, said that they’re so well researched and so well tested. But they’re so overwhelming. It’s almost like at that point, you have to over-complicate it. I felt that there was a trend. And I see that now, even like you said, with the New York Times, it’s like you have to be facing the sun and mixing it this way at exactly this time, while standing on one foot and holding your breath, and then you will have the most unbelievable X, Y, or Z. And it will be the most unbelievable X, Y, or Z of your life, but I don't have that much life to dedicate to that.
Exactly. Even Yotam Ottolenghi. I want to love his recipes so much, and he did make that Simple cookbook, but I was like, you must have so much time on your hands.
Think about being married with kids, running a household with a career and all that entails. I love Yotam and his unbelievable recipes, but we’re living different life. His cookbook, Jerusalem, it took the world by storm. It was a great moment for Jewish food and Israeli food and just putting Middle Eastern cuisine on the map. And it was great for all of us. There was a tremendous trickle-down effect. But does it to be perfect?
No, it doesn’t. It really doesn’t. I have this joke that I share with my friends that I am someday going to start an Instagram TV show called Shabbat Under Two Hours. And I know you have some Shabbat menus that are like under one hour, under two hours. We need to make this a reality show where you put some Jews in a room and you give them like 18 minutes to make a meal. But especially in the winter, I’m just like, okay, hashtag-Shabbat-under-two-hours. It’s amazing what you can do. It doesn’t have to take all week.
I think it sort of boils down to is food is your religion. I feel very much like the New York Times and that kind of vibe, it is their life. It is their religion. It is what they live for. Do we live to eat or eat to live? I’m very much eat-to-live, but let’s make it fun. Let’s make it quick. Let’s make it amazing. Let’s make it pleasurable. Let’s be able to create those family recipes with your kids and those memories in the kitchen. Let’s create the food that keeps us around the table for the long time. But it’s the means to the end, not the end.
That’s such a great segue, because when I first read that you were working for Aish HaTorah, I was like, this is just someone else named Jamie Geller. This must be more than one person. It’s just a coincidence. I really did a lot of research. I was like, no, it can't be her. I came across something that you had cowritten about why Judaism is not sustainable by food and culture. And here you are with food as your major career path. So I’m curious about why you are working with Aish now and also about that perspective. How do you bridge that divide?
I started to get a little bit antsy a few years ago. Being in this business over 10 years at this point, I started to feel sort of maxed out. How do I scale beyond myself, and how do I continue to challenge myself and inspire myself, because you can’t inspire others unless you’re inspired yourself. And I was feeling very creatively challenged. We did the books, then we did the magazine. Then I did the website. Then we’re on social media, but just the same thing every day — could this really be it?
At the same time, I think what produced that is a lot of the people that I was interacting with through digital media — seeing the real relationships that could be built in this virtual space and understanding the power of food, family, holidays, tradition, and culture. Food was just the medium. It was the entree into Judaism. And so what I wrote about was it can absolutely be a conduit for an entree to connecting to our Judaism. But again, it can't be the beginning and the end. It can’t be that the Pew Study research said that the “Jews of no religion” barely identify — their last form of connection to Judaism is two things, Holocaust remembrance and food. So what does that mean?
That’s not going to sustain for the next generation. And our goal of the Jewish people is to sustain and to continue and to grow and to be and to pass on. So while food might feel enough for the current generation that’s living like that, it’s not enough to pass on and to sustain the Jewish people. And so I wanted to leverage and use everything that I had learned about digital media and social media and the ability and power to connect through those medias, plus the power of food as the conduit and the entree — pun intended — to Judaism. But I needed to do something more that was beyond my personal ability. I hit a brick wall and I thought, who can I partner with, and how can I grow, and how can I take this captive audience and so many more that I know that we could captivate and move them along this journey toward connection to Judaism?
I was just reading a newsletter that you released just a few days ago where you talked about a huge contract that you entered, and it all fell apart, and it left you really broken. I want to talk more about this. I think many of us, we hit these points in our lives where we’re like, okay, now what? How do you handle that? How do you deal with these momentary failures?
Sometimes they last more than a moment. And that’s hard. So many times I just thought I wouldn’t get up. That’s one of a hundred stories, you know? I don’t love sharing the challenge when I’m in it. I find I it’s just too hard. It’s too raw. I think the time to share is after we sort of come out on the other side and we figure out how can we strengthen ourselves and others through this experience. What have we learned? Otherwise, it could just be this dark, negative place. So it was definitely challenging for a long time. I really credit my husband for pulling me off the edge 101 times over and really believing in me. I think when you have someone that believes in you — until I got married, my mom was my number one fan, and now she really is, but it’s really hard because she’s really fighting. My husband is really my number one fan, and having that love and that support and those people that believe in you and help you believe in yourself. I think that that’s the most amazing gift that we can give to each other, you know, to the human race, to our children, to our spouses, to our friends, our colleagues, our community members. It’s so much easier for us to see the potential in someone else, but when it comes to ourselves, it’s like this block. I’m a religious woman, so that relationship with God and knowing that He did not put me here on this earth to fail, we all have this tremendous mission and the mission could be something that’s global or communal.
It could be something that’s seen as huge, or that really is huge, but is done on your own between the four walls of your home with your family and raising that next generation. Just knowing that there's something more out there for me to do. I’m not done. It can’t be that I’m done. I can’t be like, this was it. We get back up, the Jewish people have gotten back up over the centuries. Of course I can from this. So just putting it in perspective after we get over that morning process of having lost something.
There's so much talk nowadays of people with depression and anxiety and the inability to move on. There seems to be a lot less talk of resilience.
The resilience, that’s the story. Obviously, there’s going to be challenges, going to be failure. But pushing through, that’s what we do. That’s the human race and that’s the Jewish people. We are a light unto the nations with regard to resilience and coming literally back up from the ashes time and time and time and time again, that is our mission in this world. We’re not focusing on that enough somehow, as we know, it’s easier to sort of wallow in the misery. If that’s part of the healing process, and that discussion has to happen to push us toward resilience and rising up again, then fine. But it can’t be that we end there in that down place.
You have had quite a journey in your own Judaism. I’m wondering if you can share some of the pivotal moments that got you to this moment.
I say I made like three incredible decisions in my life. One was to become observant. The second one was to get married to my husband — just like, thank God. And the third was to live in Israel. These were all pivotal decisions that had to be made.
My husband, on the first date, he said, it’s always been a dream of his to live in Israel, and he would love to live there. And I just said, I love Israel. I’ll support Israel. We can have a second home in Israel maybe, but you know, I’m not living in Israel. Even though I had loved it, it wasn’t part of my reality and culture anymore. He worked on me like water on a rock. About eight years into our marriage, we made aliyah after plenty, plenty of discussion, plenty of trips back and forth. I felt very much like I could relate to the dream and to his desire on a philosophical level, on a spiritual level, but it was the physical level. That was hard for me to leave. The materialism, the large home, the grounds, you know, we were thinking, “oh, maybe we’ll put in an inground pool.” That chasing of the American dream was still alive in my heart. And that was the hard things to part with, but emotionally, spiritually, philosophically, I knew it was the right move. I took a leap, and we went for it, and we’re here almost a decade. I do not take for granted this decision. It has not worn off. And I’m so thankful to God that we are here.
I guess it would be nice to wrap up with more food talk. What’s for dinner tonight?
We are actually redoing our kitchen.
So it’s takeout for dinner?
Correct. Right now we’re doing a ton of takeout, often bagels or falafel or pizza. Or easy things, like eggs. I love breakfast for dinner. But otherwise a go-to is stir fry. The whole family loves that. I feel like that’s a really fun family make-your-own-meal. Tacos. That's another one we love — sort of build your own that you can customize, because not everyone loves this part or that part, you know, I love in my tacos ground cauliflower. I’ll do that with spices like shawarma or hawaijj, where everyone else is doing the ground beef. It's really, really fun.
This week last year.
How far we’ve come…not?
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