Seattle's Vegan Jewish Deli Is Killing It (Without Killing Anything)
Seattle's Vegan Jewish Deli Is Killing It (Without Killing Anything)
There is hope for deli in Seattle. It's just not where you might expect.
“The future of Jewish deli is plant-based.”
An interview with Justin King, owner of Ben & Esther’s Vegan Jewish Deli
I am very late to the party on this one, which is shameful because vegan food is normally the sort of thing I’m very on top of. A vegan Jewish deli? Right here in Seattle, on Capitol Hill, that’s been open since November? And I’m only getting around to covering it now? I should fire myself.
Or maybe the whole Muriel’s debacle made me gun shy. Why hype up another Jewish culinary establishment that’s doomed to go down in everything bagel spice flames?
This conversation got me thinking totally differently. There is hope for Jewish food in Seattle. It just has to be done with the sort of realistic wisdom and experience that people like owner Justin King has. If he can make a vegan deli successful, there is hope for us yet.
The Cholent: So why don’t we just start with, who are Ben and Esther?
Justin King: Ben and Esther King were my grandparents. They were Austrian and Polish Jews, but they were from New York, I think. I still haven’t figured out if they were born in New York or they just came over when they were really young.
You have three locations now, which is pretty successful for restaurant. How did you manage to make a successful restaurant chain, and how is the Seattle location going?
I actually come from the barbershop world. I owned a popular chain of barbershops around Oregon, which I sold in 2020. Marc, my partner in San Diego, also has a couple barbershops. He was visiting one weekend in Portland. He ate at Ben & Esther’s and was like, man, this is so good. He was also a vegan. He’s like, you guys would do really well in San Diego. And I was like, well, let’s talk about that. Let’s do it. So we partnered up and opened the San Diego shop. And then we went from there, and eventually we opened up Seattle together too. Seattle’s doing well. It’s our busiest shop.
Busiest one, huh? You’re in a great location.
I wouldn’t say it’s the most profitable of the locations, but it’s definitely the busiest. In Seattle our rent is through the roof. We have like twice the expenses in Seattle than in Portland or elsewhere. And then there’s just all the food expenses. I guess they’re different in each city, but we spend a lot more in general in Seattle. But it’s good. The community’s really been supportive.
It sounds like you’re a serial entrepreneur. Restaurants can be kind of a romance industry. It’s hard to keep them open. What’s your business background and how are you successful?
I’ve had several restaurants in the past. While I was doing the barbershops, I had a couple restaurants here and there that I sold. I moved to Portland about 25 years ago. From barbershops, I worked for a bio-plastics company that I helped found. Our goal was to like get rid of single-use plastics everywhere, which we were having luck with, but Covid hit and everything had to switch to single-use.
Wasn’t that crazy?
Yeah, it was ridiculous. It was a bummer. I sold my share. The company’s still around. I also owned a tattoo shop and a community motorcycle shop in Portland. I also had a line of hair products when I had the barbershops. Now I primarily I consult and I invest in other plant-based businesses and other businesses in general.
When did you become vegan?
I went vegetarian at 13, so, 35 years ago. I think the natural transition was just to veganism over time when you see like the cruelty in the industry. I just didn’t want to take part in it. My philosophy on business is principles over profit. I won’t invest in or conduct any business that contributes to killing.
There’s a variety of businesses that you’ve been involved with. It seems like maybe you really love the business part of it more than the actual industry that you’re in.
Yeah, I think that’s fair. I like the creative process. I like making things happen and coming up with an idea and seeing how far I could take it. I’m more of a brand builder. I don’t necessarily have a passion for bio-plastics, but anything I can invest in or do that will help the planet or the community, that’s kind of my drive. I have a investment fund exclusively to invest in BIPOC-owned businesses, any marginalized group that might have a harder time finding conventional financing, or who don’t have a lot of business experience.
The Jewish thing was just because that’s who I am. I’ve done other businesses that weren’t necessarily a reflection of myself. They were just good business ideas. This one was a passion project for me, and I didn’t necessarily intend for it to blow up. I just wanted to open a Jewish deli. I wasn’t looking at expanding or anything, but that’s kind of how I do things. If I’m gonna do it, I’m gonna do it.
Tell me about your life, more about Ben and Esther. And why deli? Why not some other cuisine?
I think the inspiration was just that I always wanted to name something after my grandparents, and this is the food I grew up eating. But I wanted to figure out a way to do it in an ethical way.
When I was growing up, Ben and Esther would visit us or we’d go visit them. It was always kind of centered around a deli. They’d bring deli food, or we’d go and meet them and go out to the Jewish deli. Just growing up in a Jewish family, I’m kind of already born with like an attachment to the Jewish deli.
I just couldn’t think of anything more appropriate to name after my grandparents. I’m not going to name a barbershop Ben and Esther’s. It’s got nothing to do with them, you know? But they were definitely Jewish deli people. We’re from New York and then we moved to Miami when I was young. Both of those places have big Jewish populations, and with the Jewish population comes deli. It’s just kind of a way I could represent my culture.
I was going to ask your thoughts about the future of Jewish deli, given its decline as a cultural institution in recent years, but as a vegan is that relevant to you?
I think we are the future of the Jewish deli. As more and more people turn to plant-based diets, I think the future of the Jewish deli is plant-based. If you really want to go back in history, maybe not in the deli, but certainly in Jewish cuisine, historically it was heavily plant-based until the past like few hundred years. Thousands of years ago it was super plant-based.
It’s funny that you asked that because there’s a documentary in production about vegan food, and they flew me to New York to get some footage. They had interviewed a woman who’s a Jewish culinary expert or something, and they asked her what she thinks of vegan Jewish food. And she said, I think this is the future of the Jewish deli. They wanted to get a video of me walking in like a sea of Hasids, and they’re all casting nasty glances at me, you know, because I have like tattoos and stuff. And they put that sound bite over it, so they have this image of me walking against the grain. It was a pretty cool visual.
Wow. Who is putting this out?
I’m not allowed to say yet. But it’s a major streaming service you’re familiar with. We’re the pilot episode.
We’ll have to have a watch party. So, what are the most popular items on the menu?
Our most popular deli sandwich is the Reuben, of course. We also have a brisket sandwich. Our bagel sandwiches are really popular. We do egg and cheese and bacon. Of course, it’s vegan, so it’s not pig. The meat is seitan based. Our cheeses and our cream cheese is actually made out of coconut oil, but it’s refined so it doesn’t taste or smell like coconut. Our lox bagels are really popular. We make the lox out of carrot.
If someone approached you and said they wanted to make one of your delis, especially the Seattle one, kosher, would you entertain that possibility?
Yeah, we’ve sought kosher certification. The only reason we haven’t is because one of our products, which is our bacon, is made in Taiwan and they don’t have kosher supervision there, so we’re just waiting to see if there is one kosher company that’s coming out with a vegan bacon. I would like to have kosher certification.
If we were opening in somewhere like New York, we would absolutely need kosher certification, but we haven’t found it to be much of a problem yet. Even most Jews in the area aren’t observing kosher restrictions.
Do you feel like you’re changing hearts and minds over the meat industry?
Well, that’s the goal. Most of our customers are not vegan. I’d say our average customer eats meat. And so I do feel like we’re changing hearts and minds, because if that one meal didn’t involve killing, then we’ve done something. We’ve had a lot of meat-eaters who come in, and they’re like, oh yeah, we like your lox better than real lox.
A lot of people aren’t eating meat anymore. And it’s not for ethical reasons, it’s for sustainability reasons. The fact that they’re coming in and they’re willing to try a vegan version of the food that they like is kind of significant.
My personal mission is to like redefine what food means, what meat is. Just because we call it corned beef or steak or turkey, it doesn’t mean that it has to be made from animals. So my mission is to present comfort foods to people in an ethical way. I hadn’t seen a Jewish deli be done like that, so I just decided to go for it.
Our goal is not to convert people to veganism though. It’s just to introduce an alternative, so that even if we could change their eating habits like one day a week, I would consider that a successful mission.
Ben & Esther’s Vegan Jewish Deli is located at 907 E Pike St. benandesthers.com
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Nice addition to our palate.
I wish you left out all the “likes”.